Would Updating Narnia Be the Worst Idea Ever? | Talking Beasts
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This story is about something that happened to them when they were sent away from London during the war because of the air-raids.
The World War II setting of The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe makes it read like a period story today. But, C.S. Lewis published in 1950, just ten years after the story takes place. Many of the book’s first readers clearly remembered the war and would have related to the four children on some level.
Is the 1940s setting absolutely essential to this story? Most NarniaWebbers think so, but at least one isn’t quite sure… Listen to our discussion and then post a comment below!
Read more about the 1990s screenplay that was set in present day and substituted cheeseburgers for Turkish Delight.
Watch the post-show chatter in which the podcasters discuss the exciting/terrifying progress of artificial intelligence.
You folks make a lot of good points on both sides of the debate. I could go through the thoughts I have, but then if someone said, “Jonathan, you must decide, will Gerwig’s Narnia movies be set in the 1940s or the 21st Century?” I would choose the forties. Why? I think the 1940s Britain setting is part of the fairytale quality of the stories. There is some mystery and therefore magic, about the past and their costumes, cars and architecture. It is one step towards fantasy.
On the other hand, after seeing Lady Bird, Gerwig’s Little Women, and Barbie, I am entrusting Narnia to Gerwig and I honestly think she will do a good job. Especially due to her reverence for Lewis and the source material. If she goes for a modern setting, I think it could be done tastefully and respectfully.
It is a weird example that comes to mind, but “Just Like Heaven” with Reece Witherspoon (a ghost romcom) has a 2000s setting but with nice modern clothes with collars and summery semi-formal vibes. That would be the way to go. This would also help the movie not date as quickly. The director of Sleepless in Seattle said she set it in the winter time, because clothes in the winter are a bit more formal and not as casual (and I guess, not bound to fashion trends), because she didn’t want the movie to get dated as quickly.
I am a bit confused by Glumpuddle’s suggestion that you must keep Turkish Delight in the movie, for the sole reason that it’s a pop culture icon. That doesn’t make sense to me. They changed the whole of The Lion King in 2019, and even things like Be Prepared were desecrated, even though it was iconic.
@johnathan Paravel, it’s been a while since I saw the 2019 Lion King movie, but I remember thinking that it was too similar to the 1994 movie and didn’t have any interesting new ideas (or to the extent it did, it didn’t develop them well.) So pretty much the opposite of what you remember LOL.
P.S.
I don’t regret seeing it by the way. I don’t get the opportunity to see lions or other African animals that often so that spectacle kept me from being totally bored and dull but not unpleasant movies aren’t the worst thing in the world.
Leave it. Stop destroying other people’s stories that are beautifully written by trying to force modern times and politics into them. If someone wants to write their own story let them, but let’s stop pretending that “new renditions” of old work are anything but writing over someone else’s ideas with a modern agenda. Let’s leave the agendas out and stick to the story please!!!
This episode reminds me of why I love this podcast and NarniaWeb in general. Such a nerdy discussion on a topic that, on the surface, seems like it could never be a good idea but then it really makes you wrestle with what IS essential about adapting these stories.
Also, I appreciate how this discussion avoided devolving into a mindless culture war. Lots of nuance and respect put into arguments from both perspectives! I have to assume @ Anna Nothnagel did not read past the headline…
Great discussion! Nice and long too. My comment is going to make it sound like I lean positive on the idea of updates but I’m really more like Rilian and Gymfan. I lean negative. (Not so much because of The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe as because of other books and you couldn’t update one without updating the others. It’s actually kind of odd to me that people always jump to the air raids at the beginning of LWW as a reason not to set the story in modern day. Those are pretty irrelevant to the main story and the setting of an old manor in the middle of nowhere is pretty timeless.) But I do feel like I understand more of Glumpuddle’s perspective than others seem to do, so that’s mostly what I’ll comment about.
Here’s something about which Rilian and I agree. I like changing the setting and time period most with things like Shakespeare plays where they’ve been done so much that you have to do that to keep it interesting. (Also, I don’t find Elizabethan costumes that aesthetically pleasing so Shakespeare productions that change the setting and time period tend to look better IMO.) But is LWW a story like that? Well, of all the Narnia books, it’s the one that comes closest. For a fan like me who has seen the movie, the miniseries, the cartoon, etc., I can see how some modernization could be a good change of pace. But most mainstream people have only seen the 2005 movie if that. I’m not sure they need a change of time period to keep them awake.
(Were the names Peter, Susan, Edmund and Lucy really popular in the 40s BTW? I’m not sure.)
I really appreciated all three podcasters’ thoughts on the different worldviews people have in the time period of the Narnia books vs. our modern culture (and Narnian in the North’s thoughts in the forum too.) But I wonder if they’re kind of exaggerating the cultural gap as it applies to the story of LWW. (Not sure if I’m making an argument for modernization or against it.) I’ve never heard of a modern kid reading the book and being confused as to why it’s important to Lucy that her siblings don’t believe she’s a liar or why she, Peter and Susan believe they should save Tumnus since he spared Lucy’s life. I mean, it might be a stretch for modern kids to actually behave so honorably themselves, but I’ve never heard of them not getting the idea at all. And I’d argue there was always an element of fantasy in the Pevensies’ nobility. Sure, they taught English kids of that era a lot about duty and honor and helping other countries but that doesn’t mean those kids always acted as they’d been taught. After all, it’s drilled into modern kids that racism is bad, but you still find kids who use racist insults. (Of course, it’s likely they’re doing it to be rude rather than because they really believe in racism, but I digress.)
I think Rilian’s question of why Glumpuddle is openminded about updating the English parts of LWW but not the Narnian parts is actually pretty easily answered. Following Glumpuddle’s logic (not saying I condone it but let’s follow it for a moment), C. S. Lewis intended the English parts to feel current. He didn’t intend Narnia to feel that way at all. In fact, it’s supposed to be in contrast to the modern world, so things like giving Peter a gun instead of a sword would go against his intentions in a way using a pandemic instead of an air raid wouldn’t.
I like what Glumpuddle said about how an adaptation could say to the audience, “we know you’re skeptical but trust us. We’ll make you believe.”
I also like what Gymfan said about not wanting the Narnia fandom to be angry about adaptations all the time.
I’d like to challenge the idea that using modern slang (in an adaptation that modernized the setting) would date it. Aren’t the books also dated? I mean, people don’t say “by Jove” or “Great Scott” nowadays. Many people find those expressions corny. Why don’t we find the books dated?
I think the reason changing Turkish Delight would bother Glumpuddle in a way other period updates wouldn’t is that Turkish Delight is the title of Chapter 4 of the book. The air raids are not. Also, to English audiences anyway, Turkish Delight sounds exotic and magical. Cheeseburgers do not. The connotations would be totally different.
This episode kept bringing up cellphones like they were an unanswerable objection to modernization the story but there are parents out there who don’t believe kids should have cellphones. It wouldn’t be hard to have that be the case. It could even serve to establish Edmund’s brattishness if he complains early on about his parents’ refusing to give him a cellphone. Anyway, they wouldn’t have Wi-Fi in Narnia.
Like Gymfan, I feel like I would still go see an adaptation of LWW that made the Pevensies modern kids, but it would be a point against it. However, I’d like to close by quoting something I wrote in the forums that I think is relevant.
“You know, it’s kind of ironic that we’re talking about the 1940s/50s having a period charm that adds to Narnia. I’m not an expert on C. S. Lewis or anything but I get the impression from what I know that he considered his own society-what was then modern society-to be boorish and unromantic compared to those in the old books he’d like to read. That’s not to say he’d consider our modern society an improvement. But, in Glumpuddle’s defense (not that I agree with him; but I believe in giving every side of an argument its due), if they set the non-Narnia parts of a Narnia adaptation in recent times and those parts struck viewers as tacky compared to the Narnia stuff…that really might be closer to Lewis’s intentions. “
@Anna Nothangel, um, who said anything about adding modern politics to the story? Glumpuddle actually said he’d like to see more old-fashioned values in a modern setting. (I guess you could say that statement in itself represents a political agenda but is it a modern, revisionist one?)
In terms of what I think though, l still don’t see the real storytelling benefit from changing the setting or time period. Are modern audiences not able to connect with the characters anymore?
But, no. It’s not the worst idea and I do have a new appreciation for the perspective after listening to Glumpuddle’s argument.
There’s a fantastic thread on the forum for anyone wanting to read more!!
To quote Riley Poole from National Treasure: “Not that it can’t be done, but that it shouldn’t be done.” So all in all, I think I agree with Rilian and Gymfan, that if I first got a faithful, brilliantly done adaptation then they can do whatever they want after that.
I also feel like the WWII setting contributes a lot to each of the Pevensie’s journeys of fighting for and leading a kingdom into peace. Because back in “the real world” they couldn’t because they were children. So in that case I think the context does matter…
I really enjoyed this conversation!
If the present-day period is all Aldrich meant when he said he wanted to “update them in some fun ways”, then It’s one thing. But I fear when you start taking creative licenses with the small details, it’s a sign of how you will treat the larger plot points & characters.
Thanks for the fun episode!
Honestly, I think it might be a lot more interesting instead of updating the stories, they set them back in time to World War I.
@Eustace, I’d love to read you expound on that.
@Col Klink
Well, since children were sent away in World War I, I don’t think it would be very hard to do this. The Pevensies would have to be from London most likely because the practice of sending the children away wasn’t as widespread in World War I. The clothes are different than World War II and so, the movies could set themselves apart with a different clothing style but, not entirely lose the era feeling. I know that the directors of Anne of Green Gables movies like to do this or for that matter the 2005 Pride and Prejudice movie choose the beginning of the Regency Era so, that most of the people are not wearing Regency era dresses. There is a big train accident that happens in 1928, so, The Last Battle train accident could resemble that. Of course, if they want to do a Susan movie after all that they could have her go through World War II and it reminds her of what happened during World War I and Narnia. That is all I have so far, but, I just think that I would definitely be more open to this. Also, didn’t Lewis have the Pevensies and others use phrases that were old and not the phrases those children in that time period would have used, like “by Jove”?
Fun episode. I thought the headline was crazy talk but the discussion presented a much more tenable position! But let’s not go about updating things needlessly. It’ll make it much easier for people to complain and write off the adaptation without giving them a fair shot.
I am so on the fence about this. On the one hand:
* The book is always better, no matter how good the movie, so what’s the harm?
* The 1940s is so far removed from our culture that I understand the reasons some want it.
* If done correctly, a minor “update” could make for a better movie.
* It’s not “essential” on the level of Aslan’s resurrection. Nowhere near it.
* Like Glumpuddle, I also thought about language (like Lucy felt “very queer” or something like that lol)… kinda changes the whole meaning of things.
* And also like Glumpuddle (or was it Rillian?) said, it’s already been done. The 1979 cartoon, Lucy’s hair in the Walden and BBC versions, etc.
But then my own interests and experiences come into play…
* As an aspiring writer, I can’t help but think, “If a Gen-Z kid saw Tumnus, she probably wouldn’t react like Lucy did”. And, “If the kids had their phones in Narnia, what would happen if they came back from their trip with a bunch of pics?” And, “wait… then what about the Magician’s Nephew? Would it be during the 1950s? The 70s? If the Witch were standing on top of a car instead of an old-fashioned carriage, how would we get Fledge?”
* As a programmer, the word “update” gives me pause. There is no such thing as “done” in software development. There’s always a bug to fix, a feature to add, a tweak here, a tweak there, and in a year it doesn’t look at all like the same software. Do an image search for Microsoft Word 1.0 (or even Word 2003) and you’ll see what I mean. Let’s say that 90s update with the cheeseburger happened: in the 90s, we were still on dial-up internet, and cell phones were not a thing. So they’d want to “update” it again. If we start “updating” Narnia… where does it stop? Little things like Lucy’s hair could, in time, lead to bigger changes. And I’m all for helping a new generation of kids get into Narnia, but it has to be _Narnia_!
Bottom line, as Gymfan said, “I’m not 100% closed off to the idea, but….” My gut says “no”. Not “NOOOOOOO” (lol), just, “no, I don’t think so”.
This is all interesting, though I would say updating Narnia would be a bad idea! Oh, anyone can write a fantasy series, maybe even something similar to Narnia, with our world set to this day, and that would be fine. But updating Narnia, I think it would be too distracting!
@ Col Klink,
On the topic of the Lion King remake, I got sidetracked in my brain while writing that. I do not think Turkish Delight is such an icon. If they change it to something like chocolate or other candy, it would only bother me if it was tacky, like “Here are some Skittles!” If it was changed to a cheeseburger, well that is such junk food and fried and yuck. At least Turkish Delight has some class.
And about the Lion King, they took out one of the best parts which was Be Prepared. Changes should be made if they are an improvement or interesting style. Not just “What do modern kids like? Cheeseburgers!” Method behind the madness.
Sorry this reply is so belated! 🙂