Podcast #105: Should the Lady of the Green Kirtle Have a Name in the ‘Silver Chair’ Movie?
The Lady of the Green Kirtle will have a name in the upcoming Silver Chair film, and the production is asking fans to submit ideas. Rilian and Glumpuddle discuss!
We are still accepting submissions for the Silver Chair wishlist episode (podcast@narniaweb.com)
TRT 27:14
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I don't understand why she needs a name. The kids would just call her Queen my Lady soooo. She doesn't need a name. But if she must be named I think Fiona is pretty it's Scotish and it makes me think of red hair. I always imaged TLoTGK as a redhead. Maybe because she wore green. But again who is going to be calling the villain who loves titles by her first name?
I think the reason they created this contest for the fans to choose a name for the LotGK is not so much that they are going fill the script with the chosen name in the dialogue, but to just get a buzz started for the film and get the fans involved to build hype for the movie.
I'm from the Black Hills. A man from the black Hills. That's not my name. It's a title. I say, sure name her!
All the great movie villains have a name or at least SOMETHING to be called by fans of the film.
Her not having a name will hurt their marketing and advertising of the character. These kind of movies usually advertise the key characters, so they don't feel so foreign to the potential audience. That's the only reason I can think of. For all we know is she'll mention her name at one point in the film and that's it and they use that for marketing.
If this movie is going to be a big hit, they're going to need a good name (or good title, like "The White Witch" does) so when people talk about the movie they have a name to go with that character.
I don't really think she needs a name, but I can see why they want her to have one. "The Green Lady" or "The snake" would look rather messy in the credits, though I don't expect they will often refer to her by name in the actual movie. I also agree with ajmcrill that they are probably trying to get the fans excited and interested.
I agree! Even the white witch has a name, and it doesn't change or hurt any part of the story for her to have a name. And in the book they only say her name a couple of times, but I would imagine that they will refer to her more often making a name more convenient.
I agree with you. It's not necessary to calling her with a specific name. Jadis has a name but how many times has she been called by her name?
I wonder what the Underworld will look like. And will the Lady be beautiful in appearance to show her evil character? Her name (if she is given one) should reflect this. I think she should be a unique villain and not a mere duplicate of the White Witch.
Maybe they will show more of Rilian & the witch together. If Rilian calls the witch by name (rather than as merely “my lady”) it could support the idea that he is in love with her.
Naming the witch also could clear up confusion for movie-goers: it makes it clear that this witch is not Jadis.
In my Oxford dictionary the second definition for jade is “a disreputable woman. [ME: orig. unknown]”.
And looking up “kirtel” in a Middle English dictionary, I found that the fourth definition reads: “(a) A protective covering, a coat of plaster; (b) the outer skin of a snake.”
Lewis clearly put a lot of thought into his characters' names.
I think this is to honor the fans. Mcgee and co. think they NEED to add a first name for the witch but they are willing to let the Fans choose what the name will be. They don't want to make the same mistake of ignoring the fans like Disney and Fox did. I think its a wise decision whether you agree with naming the Witch or not. I for one will be forgiving as long as they stick with the book similar to the LWW adaption. A name means nothing to me as long as the story as a whole is mostly preserved.
I am not sure what sort of dialogue requires a name. The lack of a name makes the enchantment of Rilian stronger – there is no intimacy between them – it is all about her control and use of him. (Unless there will be another train wreck romance like Caspian and Susan! Gah!)
Jadis was named in Charn and she did have some inherent power. Perhaps the Lady was created by Jadis during her long exile in the north (see MN) and is likely not a witch but a conjurer or enchantress and a shape-shifter. (Really, can anyone see Jadis actually creating a possible rival to any degree?) As Miles noted, Lewis' choice of the word "kirtle" suggests her true nature is that of the serpent and only appears as a human woman to further its schemes.
When I first read about this, I thought of the recent film "Maleficent" which attempted to excuse an evil character by an elaborate, sympathetic backstory. There is nothing good in the Lady. At all.
The best way to honor the fans is to honor the integrity of the narrative Lewis set down. It is a timeless classic for a reason.
Wow! That's such an interesting observation about the meaning of kirtel. I've also read that Lewis was probably influenced by the John Keats poem "Lamia" when naming the LotGK. It's about a woman that is cursed with the form of a serpent, and there's mention of a green kirtle in the poem's imagery.
I never thought about what glumPuddle said about origins before. Somehow I just never made the connection. The observation that she is constantly erasing other people's origins while she her self has none is fascinating. It makes me wonder if even she knows her origin.
There is much more dialogue needed for film than books. It's possible, maybe even likely that she'll have more scenes than just the two in the movie and obviously the filmmakers thought it necessary for her to have a name so at this point I'm inclined to believe them.
I didn't mind the White Witch's dwarf or Ramandu's daughter having a name, so I don't think I'll mind the Lady of the Green Kirtle having a name either. If they do provide more of a backstory, maybe it'll be connected to the Green Mist from VDT, which they hinted at anyway.
I'm still nervous that this movie will be very small and not as visually interesting as the first three. At least there aren't any major battles in this one. If they really had to, they could always use Kickstarter, and I'm sure there would be enough support.
At first I was like hey she doesn't have a name! (Yes I am very protective of the original books) However we're looking at a script that could be well over 120 pages… even 200 pages… So it's likely that LoGK will have more screen time in the film unlike the books. It will be very hard to stick completely to the book in terms of the film because if they did the film would be very short, so they have to do some extending of scenes and so on…
Which means LotGK will get more screen time – due to this she does actually need a name – like some people here have said it doesn't mean she will get called that in the film (No one called the white witch Jadis did they!.
So yeah… I'm all for it! I'm looking forward to seeing how they do this 🙂
Yes I think so. It would develop her personality well.
la mejor para representar en la silla verde es angelina jolie
Just thought: What about a name, that hints to her anonymity. A name with the meaning of noone or unknown.
I propose okända from swidish okänd for unknown.
Alas I can't enter it to the name myself, since I am not resident of one of the countries 🙁
I think something to be considered is the content and context of the dialog used with LOTGK. Will she be called this by every character? Will this be her true name, or her name used when she's in disguise on the surface? To me it makes more sense that she would be given a name for a disguise used possibly by the prince in disguise. When she is revealed she might demand to be addressed properly as "My Lady" but this is all conjecture.
Let us hope that there are no major battles in this film. The VDT movie had a much bigger battle than the book did.
i hope you will choose the name that i think of…
LADY ALMIRA
everyone needs a name.so maybe Yovanna or just lady
Brace yourself!! The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies teaser trailer is coming!!!! 😀
Middle Earth is the best friend of Narnia! 🙂
OFF TOPIC
Note to moderators: I can't seem to log into the forum because I keep being forwarded to ad websites.
I don't think she should have a name, although it may be too late to put my oar in. It's at least somewhat implied in the books that it's Jadis ('yet while I lived all earth was under me'). Of course that is just an interpretation, but I like the ambiguity.
I think giving the Lady a name is a great idea. Though calling her Lady Green sounds great, like White Witch. I think Zelinda is a good name, but it's not Narnia-ish, so maybe you guys have a better name for her. I just wish the name is reflected the Underworld and Narnia.
Sorry. 😛
Exactly, I agree
I disagree. The tone of the two series is very different. I like both. Middle Earth is more about war and fighting evil. Narnia is very little about battle and more about the personal search for God. Both have some very good characters. This is a very brief summary (no Internet battles now), but the tone is different. This is why I am much more of a Narnia fan.
IF they are sticking close to the movie, the only people dialoging with her will by Eustace, Jill, Puddleglum, and Prince Rilian. Those people called her such things as "my lady," and "the witch." There you go. You have her name.
Why I call them was a best friend because their author is a best friend. 🙂
And there's something weird, 2 years before, I was a no. fans of Middle Earth, but these day, I found my love for Narnia is growing slowly, just a little bit more time, I think it will surpass Middle Earth, I think maybe it's because "Aslan". HE is like a father for me…. 😉
Correction: I was a no.1 fans
Actually, there's God's words inside the stories of Middle Earth too. 🙂
I don't know about this before, but I beginning to learn something about it these day, just like I have long sleep, and suddenly wake up. 🙂
I believe Middle Earth and Narnia both was a great work of the LORD. 🙂
I found Narnia is more easy to learn about words of HIM, and HE hide some of HIS words in Middle Earth stories. 😉
Or His messages.
Sorry for my bad English.
Middle Earth isn't only war and fighting evil, there's something more, there's hidden messages, just like Bible, when I read it for 1st time, I have some misunderstood about Bible's stories, and actually it have hidden messages. 🙂
Middle Earth plus Narnia is a bridge HE create for me, without Middle Earth and Narnia, I'll never become HIS follower. 🙂
Without Middle Earth, I'll never know about Narnia. 🙂
I think I have make too many reply. 😛
When I'm sad, HE will console my soul.
I know I have make mistake many many time, and HE also already forgive me many many times. (:
I don't know for sure, but I actually think that refers to Father Time. It's only eight pages prior to Rilian's explanation about the message that we meet Father Time and the gnome warden tells the questers that he was once a king in Overland, but now lies dreaming and will not wake until the end of the world. So that checks off the "throneless" and "under earth" requirements of the message, and he's also a giant, too, which would explain why he has a giant message over his sepulcher and is buried beneath the ruins of a city of giants.
Also, Jadis would have been lying if she said that the whole world was beneath her rule; the Tisroc was in power when she was ruling Narnia, as well as the monarchy Archenland, presumably. Not that Jadis wouldn't be capable of boasting, but I think it makes more sense if it refers to Father Time, since he had clear *physical* domination over the universe of Narnia. (He literally blotted out the sun in The Last Battle.)
Lady Emerald, as she always wear green.
Good choice. 🙂
I think she should have a name! What are the non readers gonna call her? The Green Witch? Shows a bit of a lack of creativity, especially after The White Witch. I don't think a name is going against C.S. Lewis's story.
That's what I think, too.
I've often thought that the "witches of the north" including "The Lady of the Green Kirtle" might have been trained under Jadis, and perhaps she shared a small amount of the stolen fruit from the garden. Just a thought.
What about Coral or Javan both are the name of a type of snake?
I think they should name her! 😀
Maybe something like Lyla?
It means dark/evil beauty.
And it did say she was beautiful in the book…
NOOOOOOO!!!!!! If she is not named in the book, don't name her in the movie. I believe movies should be as close to the book as possible. If a book was good, don't mess with a good thing. Please be faithful to the books. (I must admit "Prince Caspian" sadly disappointed me with its modifications.)
Just a thought: You can't just refer to her as a witch like you could with the WW, because we don't know she's a witch until the very end… so in a way it doesn't work as well as it did with LWW… though "Lady" is still valid, but it the book she's just this strange person they happen to come across who doesn't seem as important at first… whereas Jadis was pretty significant from the get go and everyone and Narnia knows who the witch is without knowing her name. I don't know… I could see it working well either way. It really depends on what they are doing with the dialogue as to whether or not she needs one.
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I submitted the name 'Darfell' for the Lady of the Green Kirtle. I actually have never read the book 'The Silver Chair', although I most definitely have it. I actually have two copies of each Narnia book: My Mom's old collection, and the special, fancy, one-volume edition 'THE CHRONICLES OF NARNIA: THE SIGNATURE EDITION', but that's sort of beside the point.
I had only read a few things about this witch – supposedly, word on the street is there's this scene where she's underground, and she attempts to deceive the main characters into thinking Narnia and Aslan don't exist. (?)
Anyway, upon hearing the Sweepstakes, I already knew the kind of thing they were going for, and that it couldn't resemble Jadis' name… obviously. So, I thought of combining the words 'DARK' and 'FELL', meaning underground, and came up with the name 'Darfell'.
Drusilla, Livia, Morag, Verda, Aspen, Herpestia, Fangina, Kate. Whatever. No name required. She is a beautiful blonde bitch who wants to rule the tiny land of Narnia brouhaha hahaha! Who needs a name when you have that kind of ambition. Lewis really had problem with women didn't he? Notice it wasn't some nameless male cradle snatcher magician who spirited away the Narnian princess Rilia?
No because he clearly felt that all powerful women were untrustworthy bitches who would all just use their "womanly wiles" to seduce and castrate men. I love the Chronicles and the FEEL of Narnia, but Lewis' gender (and race) politics were worse than Tolkien's.
Ok, let's reverse the LOTGK and Rilian's role. Now you'd be complaining about the fact that it was a girl being kidnapped and that Lewis thought all women we're helpless and needed rescuing right? There's no winning with you.
Lewis didn't have problems with women. Do you recall strong female characters such as Aravis or Jill?
Or do you just choose to eliminate or ignore specific characters which completely dismantle arguments accusing Lewis of being sexist? There's more male villains than female villains, does that mean Lewis hated men? Of course not
If they are going to name her, I'd stick with Lewis's Turkish-theme naming (Aslan=Lion, Jadis=Witch, Tash=Stone), and make a name meaning something like Serpent or Green. I'd submit Yilan (yuh-LAAN), it sounds vaguely feminine and means snake.
no she should not, because she isn't because she is fake, it's symbolic. c.s Lewis didn't give her a name for a reason.
How is vibora verde? It means poisonous green snake in Spanish.