‘Dawn Treader’ Grosses $10.5m Over New Years Weekend
Happy 2011! The Voyage of the Dawn Treader grossed an estimated $10.5m over the holiday weekend. Box Office Mojo writes:
[Gulliver’s Travels] remained in eighth place and couldn’t top its 20th Century Fox stable mate The Chronicles of Narnia: The Voyage of the Dawn Treader, which drew $10.3 million in its fourth weekend. With $86.9 million in 24 days, Voyage lost more ground to [Wardrobe] but it gained some on [Caspian].
The film has now grossed $86.9m domestically. Its worldwide total is up to $297.1m.
Still no word on another Narnia film being green-lit, but keep checking back!
Forget what i said about LB's success, the entire story will have been done and therefore the whole story will be complete, something which has bogged the series' success. It is an advantage that Potter and Rings had over Narnia to begin with, and when LB comes, they wouldn't need to worry.
7 times! 😀
I'm not going to say my thoughts on this matter, but I will say that Shelly and Gem, your points are very interesting and very good. This is one of the most interesting conversations I've ever seen on NarniaWeb! 🙂
If Dawn Treader has more than drawn level with Prince Caspian already, how can they possibly even consider not making Silver Chair???
And what is this nonsense about skipping SC and doing Magician's Nephew first? Magician's Nephew could always easily be made later, but there is only so long that Will Poulter would be able to reprise Eustace, before he grows up and outgrows the role.
Nothing against Disney. As I mentioned, I went to see Tangled and really enjoyed it. Domestic numbers do carry more weight than the wordwide numbers BUT worldwide numbers have, in the past decade or so, become far more important than you seem to be implying. In terms of worldwide numbers it appears that VDT, which had a much smaller production budget, will outperform Tangled and Tron. China and Japan have yet to be heard. My comment was really more in responce to some VDT bashing comments and reviews I've seen around the web, not here; in general denigrating VDT/NARNIA, praising Disney for dropping it, and elevating Tron and Tangled.
Now it is almost 100 m domestic and 337 worldwide.
It can get over 400 m overall 🙂
Now I understand what it means when a movie doesn't open up too great in a bad snowstorm. I'm going to school in Tennessee and a bunch of snow came through and nobody was out on the road. Schools and businesses were closed. It was deserted! I can see how that affected opening weekend for VDT
You, my good Narnian, win the Internet for your dedication.
Just passed 337 million. Has yet to open in Japan (big market), Venezuela and has just openned in China. Still weeks to run in the US and other countries. I believe it will surpass 400 million.
It hit number one here in Sweden is still number 2 for this fourth week. Hardly weak! Go forth Dawnie! 😉
It hit number one here in Sweden and is still number two for this fourth week. Hardly weak! Go forth Dawnie! 😉
Well, it has passed 337 mill now, so I'm thinking that maybe the China release helped. Japan still to go, so I think it's a pretty sure bet that it will surpass 400 mill. This movie is a hit worldwide, and I'm tired of people claiming otherwise. Norway has a population of 4,5 mill people, 160.000 has seen VDT in the two weeks it's been out, just to give you an indication. And why should Fox bother with the PC numbers anyway? They didn't make PC.
VDT rocks Scandinavia! Cool.
They should make a whole bunch of movies not related to narnia and set a little aside from the profit of each movie, then when they get enough money they should make all seven movies the length apart from each other they are in the books. Also they should ask the C. S. Lewis Estate if they could make the narnia series twice one more family friendly and the other more true to the book, thus taking care of both problems.
But it hasn't drawn level. Overseas it's doing better than PC, but in America it's falling far short.
I have high hopes for Japan. So far, VDT has done better than Caspian in all of the east Asian countries where it's been out for any length of time.
Now /that/ is true Narnian spirit! Congrats, son of adam!
@common
A bit early to speculate on the WW numbers don't you think? Haven't followed Tangled's numbers but Disney has purposely been slow in releasing Tron in many countries. Currently VDT is out in over 70 countries versus +40 countries for Tron.
And as mentioned before Disney, will easily make hundreds of millions over the next few years with all the merchandise, clothes, themeparks, etc. Something Fox cannot say.
Anhun, that Scottish landscape is beautiful, totally what I imagined when I read the book.
I'm jealous. 🙁
Tangled hasn't hit the UK or any of the major east Asian markets yet.
Well, thank you, Not of This World, I appreciate that. And I think you are wise to not say your thoughts, I (and everyone else) should probably be careful about what we say around Anhun or she'll go into a temper tantrum about something someone said that she doesn't like, OR, something she didn't know. Anyway, hope you like LOTR! It is really is a great story.
Disney could make hundreds of millions on kids merchandise and what not, even if they had spent only 130 million on Tangled not 260 MILLION!!! Not financially "brilliant". Again, this is not against Tangled. I liked the movie. Well see how the worldwide numbers vs production and advertising costs add up in the end. All I'm saying is that VDT was a great movie in my opinion, and it is not doing as bad as some are claiming. Will likely surpass 400 million … and I think that'll be enough for SC.
The Chinese audiences also hold two completely different ideas about the film: some said that it was childish; others thought that that's what Narnia means, for children themselves and their family and for the childhood in every adult's memory. Anyway, the majority speak highly of the visual effect. And it's now at 2nd place in cinema.
I checked on the latest income and it's now up to 337 million… It looks like it will at least match Prince Caspian!! 🙂
@Not of this World: Interesting? Well, whatever floats your boat. I thought Gem's first comment was bigoted and rude, calculated to offend people. Her second comment was utter nonsense. I attended a Catholic high school for 2 years, and had to study the catechism. The Catholic church teaches that salvation comes through faith in God. You don't earn salvation through good works, like earning points in a video game. There may be some sects of Christianity that preach the good works game, but Catholicism isn't one of them.
Seems like here in America, there are more opinions than you can shake a stick at. I was hopelessly confused going into it.
I had never really thought of Chatholics and if they were Christian or if they were, as you might say, on their own. And I thought both Gem and Shelly's points were very good and convincing. That is why I think the conversation is interesting. And I didn't think Gem's comments were rude or nonsence.
It may come close to, or even slightly surpass, the foreign numbers of 'Prince Caspian', but that's all. 'Dawn Treader' will finish at least $30 million behind 'Caspian' in domestic earnings. A better investment, yes. A better earner? No.
I also think $400 million is going to be very difficult to achieve. It would have to earn $112 million domestic, and $288 million foreign to reach that figure. That means it needs another $17.5 million domestically, and about $45 million internationally. Optimally… maybe. That's really pushing it, though.
The film *is* childish. That's a perfectly appropriate description. Not child-like, with its playful connotations, but child-ish:
1. Of, like, or appropriate to a child.
2. Silly and immature.
It really is a kiddie movie. I kept waiting for Drinian and Caspian to exchange knock-knock jokes. Ugh.
I had huge doubts that would happen, but God has blessed this movie profoundly!!
Here's hoping for a $400+ million grand total!!
na, reaching $400 million isn't too hard, but it won't be the U.S. that will provide the push it needs.
Japan will hopefully give us that push, as VDT has yet to release there.
(It was the biggest foreign producer of income for PC)
I'm figuring a modest additional 10 to 12 million domestic in the remaining 70 days or so, 40 million or so between China, Japan, Venezuela (others?), plus 3% or so from everywhere else will get us to around 400 million.
hello guys, yes, i love these discussions! @ gem, just because i like you : ) , i dug this up: catechism of the catholic church: 617:1992- "justification has been merited for us BY THE PASSION OF CHRIST who offered himself on the cross as a living victim". that's the ACTUAL official position. the thing about works is" work out your salvation with fear and trembling" –
'is distorted by ant-i catholics insinuating catholics believe you earn salvation by works. the AcTUAL position is faith will RESULT in works . the catechism is available online at ewtn.com or catholic.com -the catholic apologetics site with the official teachings. I encourage anyone in another denomination to look up the actual catholic position instead of believing anti catholic sources. They are distorting( some innocently) what catholics actually believe and innocent persons end up thinking it's actually true that it's the real catholic position. satan wants to keep believers separated and quarreling amongst ourselves to weaken us as a group and make us easier to attack. We are ONE body, the body of christ!
actually, i felt the 3d make it look lovely! and not tacky, with lots of stuff thrown at your face-
Again, thank you, Not of This World. Anhun, YOU are not people. YOU are only one person, and I'm sorry you don't agree with me, but do you really think I care about offending you? No, I don't even KNOW you. And I am also sorry that you have been taught that about Catholicism, and, more importantly, you BELIEVE it. And parting word- Catholicism is NOT the same as Christianity, their doctrines, ideas, beliefs, and core values are completely different. I don't know WHY someone would think they are one and the same.
Exscuse me if I did not make this clear before, I was comparing the Catholic beliefs to Protestant beliefs. Both religions have Christ as their center. But I just went online and looked up extensively the beliefs of the Catholic Church to make sure my argument was legit, and it is. The whole beliefs of Catholics is that you have to purify your soul in order to get to heaven—Purgatory, praying to people other than God…it all is for the purifying of their soulds so they are "clean enough", if good enough isn't the right way to put it, to get into heaven. That's their whole salvation belief, that you "earn your right to heaven", or you have to believe or do certain things to "get into heaven", like just accepting God and His free gift of Love isn't enough. I am not bad mouthing Catholics, they believe what they want ot, but I know Catholics and they have said that this is their belief. I am deciding to go only on what I have been told myself from people who are actually part of the Catholic Church themselves.
he looks like a different person already!
the protestant argument confuses * justification* and *santification*. JUSTIFICATION means jesus paid the penalty for the sins of humanity, which reopened the gates of heaven to us. (those God fearing people who had died before the crucifixion were in "abraham's bosom"- a place of rest outsside heaven until christ came and ushered them into heaven) . SANTIFICATION is the cleansing of our souls- a purifying . that occurs after death.
this was not a new doctrine, the jews have always prayed for their dead- so it was obviously revealed to them by
God to do so. You don't have to pray for someone who is already in heaven to be saved, and praying for someone in hell CAN"T save them. so logically there is a place where your prayers take effect. The old testament shows the jews praying for their dead relatives to be saved, and it was that way for four thousand years until christ came-it is not a catholic invention. If you want to do research on what the catholic position is, you have to go to the official catholic church documents. protestants have a vested interest in twisting catholic doctrine, it's the way to keep you anti-catholic and in THEIR church. it's very bizarre what some denominations teach that the catholic church says, when it is not even close to actual catholic doctrine- they confuse issues and sometimes outright lie. That's why i's good to go to an actual apologist like catholic answers group, they take questions from protestants who would like the catholic position explained more clearly. catholics DO NOT : worship saints (they are just people we know are in heaven and they are just our brothers and sisters in christ) catholics DO NOT worship the virgin mary- she is just a human being we honor profusely for facing the death penalty by stoning for pregnancy out of wedlock to bring us jesus. those are just two examples of misunderstandings that keep being passed around. you can even call catholic answers during their "for non catholics only" radio show once a month and they explain where non catholics have been confused. It's usually Dr. Scott Hahn or another former hard core protestant answering the questions because they know where the caller is coming from. Try reading "Surprised by Truth" his book filled with protestants stories about the things they had been errantly taught about catholicsim. Most average catholics do not know how to explain the church as expertly as a professional apologist.
PS – even CS Lewis believed in a purgatory state- as he had used logic to come to that conclusion- even though that was not his church's (anglican) official position.
http://www.catholic.com/library/Grace_What_It_Is_.asp scroll down halfway to "Justification and Sanctification" sorry i don't know how to make links
groovy! it made the link itself! narnian magic! hail aslan!
Thanks for all that info. It is amazing how much is misunderstood about the catholic religion. I appreciator all the clarification, and it is great that we all love the story of narnia!
thank you kristine, it's hard to clear up misunderstandings when someone in error gets there first, it's natural to let that source infiltrate your mind, then have a resistance to the correct source if it comes along after. so much has been twisted and many protastants of today have only heard disinformation from their organization that has been passed down for 500 years. it's hard to get through to people of today who sincerely have anticatholic beliefs that there are innacurracies and distortions they are being fed. it is only logical when you hear something questionable not to just swallow t hook line and sinker but to go to the original source, such as catholic.com, the catholic tv network ewtn.com, a great catholic bookstore tan.com (TAN books has n awesome book calledTHIS IS THE FAITH that will spell it out like you,ve never seen before. ) I've noticed that fundamentalism and evangelicalism especially have many misunderstandings about catholicism embedded in them.and it's usually a twisting of terms so you try to discuss something, you go around in circles, and come to find out you have different definitions for the same word or idea. so of course you keep going around in circles. CS Lewis had been fed anti catholic innacuraceis when he was young, so couldn't go catholic although he developed into an anglican with many catholic beleifs. As you can see with Gem, she's been fed distortions first, and it's hard to break through now and say they were wrong in the first place, don't believe those sources. they aren't even the correct positions.
I honestly am surprised that you would trust a website for information about a religion. Catholics DO pray to the Virgin Mary and to the apostle Peter and other people, they believe that they are saints and therefore are closer to God, so if they pray to them their prayers will be told to God by these "saints". I have been in the very presence of Catholics as they pray to their Mother Mary. I am sorry, but you can't escape the fundamental beliefs of a religion, and that's exactly what you are trying to do. Catholics also believe that in order for your sins to be forgiven by God, you have to tell them to a priest who will tell them to God. I am not bashing Catholicism, I am just telling the facts. This is what they believe in, and have for centuries, and it can't be changed. I am very close to some Catholic friends of mine and they are amazing people, and because I have been around them so much I have heard and seen what they believe. I don't care if you have a different opinion, that's totally fine, but you are not going to change mine, because I believe what I believe and that can't be changed. But, seeing as we are both not Catholic, ((actually, are you? I don't think you are, but you are very defensive of Catholicism)) I think we should just leave this alone. I know what you think and you know what I think, but who knows, one of us may be right while the other is wrong, or we both may be right, or we both may be wrong. I do enjoy conversations like these, even if I don't agree with you and personally think that you have been rather blinded and don't know what you're saying. It is nice to get another person's viewpoint on something. I just don't agree with you because you are defending a religion that I think holds people in a unseen bondage and holds God over them like a menacing threatening being that will eat you alive if you don't obey Him. Well, I am not that against Catholicism, I just don't agree with some of it's teaching. Which is fine! It's a free country and it's my opinion.
I wanted to watch Last Battle
I can not wait until 2017 because I was not sure if I still lived in the year 2017
@Gem, the websites I am referring to are not just joe schmoe's home website- they are official catholic websites with the actual doctrines of the catholic church, written by professional fulltime apologists with doctorates . If you check the link you will see they are not private, personal opinions. That is what you are gettting from your sources, because you are repeating common misstatements. I am catholic and well versed in the official doctrine. My husband was a fundamentalist and that is how I can spot anti-catholic disinformation a mile off. What you have written in your last post is NOT CATHOLIC DOCTRINE, BUT DISINFORMATION. It is misunderstood and the catholic postitions are totally distorted. You are welcome to hold your opinions, but they are not the true postitions of the church. the Catechism of the catholic church is the actual book of the doctrines and explains what you are misunderstanding. Also, the writings of the christians of the first 3 centuries after christ is called the Early Church Fathers and they recorded what happened in those days. these sources will tell you what christianity at the time of christ was like by actual witnesses who were there. PS you dont HAVE to talk to mary or saints if you dont care to,it is not a requirement, and confession to a priest was established by Christ and is right in the bible ( christ to apostles: " whose sins you forgive, they are forgiven , whose sins you retain, they are retained)" what Christ himself has established as a sacrament, let no MAN put asunder–
I am deciding to believe that you are a born-again Catholic, because I have friends who are not and they do believe in what I have said they do. Otherwise I would not have posted it, I am not trying to look ignorant or like a hypocrite. But obviously you are from a more modern, more progressive way of believing in Catholicism, which is fine, I am not calling you not a Catholic, I am just saying you probably wouldn't agree with all of the doctrines of the original Catholic church if you knew what they were. You are welcome to your beliefs, but I've got to say though, you seem a bit wishy-washy in your opinions, for example, it seemed to me that you first said that Catholics do not pray to the Virgin Mary or other people they regard as saints, and then you said that you can but don't have too, that it is not required…okay…please, I am not bashing your religion or trying to make it look bad, all the Catholics I have known have been dedicated to God and their families and incredibly dear people. But Catholics also are known for their uncertainty in their own religion, and unfortunately some of the things you have said have confirmed that for me.
And might I add, I find your remark on Jesus saying it is right to confess your sins to a priest as completely hypocritical. That belief makes it look like as humans we are not holy enough to go to God and personally repent and talk to Him. No, we really aren't for all we do and have done, but even still God wants us to be close to Him and have a personal relationship with Him, not feel like we aren't good enough to go to Him ourselves and ask for forgiveness, that instead we have to go to a person who will ask our forgiveness for us. And what makes the priest holy enough himself to ask forgiveness on the behalf of others? I mean, if regular people don't have the right to repent to God personally, why would a priest have the right? Do you believe that God has put spiritual figures in charge of what we each believe of God and our own spirituality to be a bridge, if you will, between us and God? God's Son Jesus is our bridge, that is the very base of Christian religion, and to say what you are saying, that Jesus intended for another to repent to God on behalf of us because we are not worthy, is completely boggling to me if you claim to have a personal relationship with God. We must all guide our own spiritual journeys, no one else can do it for us, no other human can talk to God for us, or has the right to talk to God for us, because somehow or another they are more worthy to do it…??
dearest gem, you along with many others are being MISLEAD by the "spin" of misinformed non catholics. there was originally ONE CHRISTIAN FAITH. everyone believed the same doctrine. everyone was a christian and everyone knew what that meant, what the doctrines were, and were all in agreement and OBEDIENCE.. As time went on ,little heresies cropped up and were stamped out. The major assault on christianity that had a widescale effect was when a monk named martin luther who was known for his emotional issues (abandonment by his father, guilt issues-he would spend hours in the confessional and couldn't accept he was forgiven, etc.) started twisting doctrines and stirring up problems based on his own misunderstandings. BY THEIR FRUITS YE SHALL KNOW THEM. This led to the PROTESTant revolt- and you can see the FRUITS of his rebellion- christendom was split in two- just what satan would love. the protestant wold devolved into division into division into division of mere men trying to make up their OWN self-pleasing versions of christianity. You now have in the protestant world of today over THIRTY THOUSAND different, bickering denominations. This is NOT unity, and the devil LOVES IT! One denomination allows abortion, one abhors it. One believes in the true presence of christ in the eucharist, one believes it's symbolic. one believes in water baptism, one doesn't. one uses one version of the bible, another uses a different version. ONE HALF OF CHRISTIANITY IS NOW A DIVIDED MESS. Jesus left us with a shepherd to guide and lead his people FOR OUR BENEFIT-the only church to have existed from the time of the apostles- the CATHOLIC (which means universal) church. if you read the writings preserved from the first 300 years of the early church fathers (documents most protestants and nondenominational people don't even know exist, never mind reading them) it describes the early church practices as being the SAME AS THE CATHOLIC CHURCH OF TODAY- 7 sacraments, an appointed leader, bishops under that leader, real presence of christ in the eucharist. Jesus wants all people to belong to the institution HE set up, NOT martin luther or other mere men.-
You will notice the first tactic of misleading christians is to TURN YOU AGAINST WHAT CHRIST HAS LEFT YOU FOR YOUR -BENEFIT- for example, you have been given a free spiritual life coach- your confessor- who is your guide in the spiritual life. This has been somehow turned around in some people's minds as in insult to God. ( i don't need a go between, etc.)Your confessor uses the power conferred on him BY christ's church to absolve you of your sins since christ is no longer physically present as he once was. It has nothing to do with the power of the individual man, it is Christ giving you the absolution. This is a comfort to those who understand this is a comfort, and a tool for those wishing to progress in the spiritual life. It is so we don't HAVE to be alone, and we can receive the same power christ conferred in person. Historical documents recorded that this has been the practice since the time of christ and the apostles. this is nothing new, non- catholics are just not informed of it. If you reject it, YOU REJECT WHAT CHRIST HAS ORDAINED TO BE THE METHOD HE APPROVES. TO REJECT IT is to be led into arrogance and NOT HUMILITY, WHICH GOD LOVES. The saying goes, TO BE INFORMED OF HISTORY IS TO BECOME CATHOLIC. It is only logical to make informed decisions in christianity to start at the top, THE BEGINNING – go to the ancient documents of the christian church and what the practices were. it is illogical to start with claims of today and then work backward, you will be knee deep in error and disinformation and trying to swim backward toward the truth. And you will be caught in a circle of trying to inform catholics that their practices are wrong, when you are misunderstanding their practices and their meanings in the first place. You are being misinformed by people who have a vested interest in keeping you misinformed so they can have their own church/ business.
@gem you have not stated your denomination – if you would i would understand your beliefs better, as to where you are coming from-
I am shocked at your hypocrisy and self denial. I am completely fine with you having your opinion, but I just don't understand you having the one you do. It is pretty arrogant to say that Jesus himself established the Catholic church. Jesus did not start any denomination, you, being human and wanting your religion to be the best of them all, have concocted that idea to make your religion feel legit, instead o0f knowing it is legit because it worships and gives glory to God and God alone. Just another strike on the uncertain, questionable doctrines of Catholicism. And I am so sorry for you that you have been tricked into thinking that you aren't good enough to repent to God yourself, that you feel like you need a human as a bridge to God, and that that human is somehow appointed more holy than the rest of you and therefore holy enough to talk to God. That's the whole purpose of religion, the whole reason it exists, is that God gave us His Son so that we could be forgiven of our sins and have a personal relationship with God. I have not said directly that I was against Catholicism, but I do detest any religion that encourages the thought that we as normal people have no right to have personal contact and communication with God- God gave us that right through sending Christ His Son, and to say that the use of another human JUST LIKE US is the only way to have our sins heard and forgiven by God is absolutely deplorable to anyone who believes in God as their only source of life.
To answer you question, I have grown up in a Evangelical-Free denomination, but I really don't believe in religion, because nowadays the meaning of religion has become what mankind WANTS to think of God. Religion has become about traditions, "holy objects", and most and worst of all, humans. Therefore, I believe in love. I actually will be honest with you, although I come from a Christian background, I do not have a personal relationship with God right now at this time in my life. I believe in His existence and the existence of good and evil, but I do not claim to having Him as the center of my life. But I do believe in love, and whatever or where ever I find that, that's what I'll believe in.
@gem, to respond to your other statements- to clear up misunderstandings- you are looking at the situation in your denomination's terms, which you are mixing in with your mistaken idea of what the catholic position is. The word "pray" is an ancient word meaning, to communicate- as in "pray tell, Juliet, yada, yada," there fore, you can "pray" to Mary, communicate with her, or anyone else who is with christ, as christ will allow them to hear you. This does not mean Mary or anyone else who is holy and gone before us is a god/goddess or that we are equating them with the creator of the universe when they are simply a human being who is on the other side of the veil. That is why it is aggravating for anti-catholics to go around in circles with us about ,"you worship Mary, you're divinizing her ", blah blah. CATHOLIC DOCTRINE IS SHE IS A HUMAN BEING CHOSEN BY GOD TO BEAR THE SAVIOR, SO WE ARE GRATEFUL TO HER. For this reason God has given her many special priveleges, and out of LOVE she intercedes for us on earth. Jesus has revealed he wants her honored for her role in salvation history. She is right there with Jesus, we are NOT- so why wouldn't he especially listen to her requests? OF COURSE SHE HAS MORE MERIT WITH HIM THAN WE DO, SHE BORE HIM AND RAISED HIM ! THAT'S ALL, AND WHAT IS SO BAD ABOUT THAT? You don't have to ask her to intercede for you before her son, but why on earth wouldn't you, logically? It pleases christ to see her honored, just as you would enjoy seeing your mother honored. And it is an arrogant position created by the anticatholics of long ago to suggest one should be offended by tribute to Jesus' mother. That way YOU have been conned out of beautiful relationship with her. Even Martin Luther had a great devotion to the virgin mary and wrote quite a bit about it. BEING OFFENDED BY THE VIRGIN MARY IS A TRICK OF SATAN DO DISEMPOWER YOU, because he knows she has been given the assignment to lead the charge against him in the latter days.
@gem, — re: me being a modern catholic, once again this reveals you are misunderstanding. and if i knew the real catholic doctrines a
i"d change my mind, and im being wishy washy- you've got all those things BACKWARDS- I KNOW the catholic faith because i'v deeply researched the OFFICIAL documents and don't listen to rumours from anti-catholics/misinformed people or half-truths or out right smears. That's why I say to you or anyone else (because i know there are a lot of noncatholics here who have heard the same mistakes) I am not a "cafeteria"catholic , picking or choosing to beleve what I like- I require hard proof and evidence that is well documented. That's how i decided the catholic church is the original, complete christian faith. It's either the church christ himself founded or it's not- and anything after the reformation was created by mere men to please their whims. And re: priests- priests were established by God in JEWISH OT days- there is nothing weird about that- and he laid hands on the 12 apostles to be his first twelve priests of the new church. that is all historically documented,and those apostles laid hands on others, who laid hands on others and passed down AUTHORITY ESTABLISHED BY CHRIST HIMSELF. Once again, non-catholics have twisted this and appealed to men's arrogance-"he's no more holy than me, blah blah…" no one said he was more HOLY, he has had the sacrement of holy orders conferred upon him which gives him the ability to hear confessions-as christ established right in the new testament. If you have not had hands laid upon you and recieved the priesthood of christ, well, guess what, he DOES have christ's authority and we do not.
but the catholic church does NOT think you have no right to have a personal relationship with God, that is a misunderstanding. And christ set up his church it's right in the bible how he did it. And we Do repent and talk to God on our own, anytime we feel like it, then recieve the sacrament christ established. It's not : nah nah, my church is better than yours, it's- what is the complete faith as experienced by the apostles.
Well, I hope you get closer to God when you feel right about it, and i hope you are not going through a hard time. thank you for sharing that with me. I will pray for your happiness. Love, High Queene Shelly Belly
Thank you for your prayers and concern, I deeply appreciate your words.
God is a loving God, but also a jealous God, He is so adament about us only having Him as our God (the first commandment) and praying to His mother Mary is completely suggesting that you do not believe God is the one and ONLY one we should pray to. Mary was another human just like you are me, that was the absolute miracle of His birth. Yes we should hold her in respect but not put her in a place that only God should hold. The Catholic religion puts her in a place God says in His very word is only for Him. That is blasphemy.
God tells all of us to go out and share His word with the world, that is what he told His apostles, He did not appoint them to a certain church like you suggest. So you are saying that Peter, for example, went out and touched somebody and gave them the right to be a priest and lead a church, and then that person went out and touched another person, and then another, and then another, and then another, and it goes on and on…That suggest that God is choosy about who can follow Him and who is worthy to lead a group of believers…the wonderful thing about it all is that God doesn't choose who he wants serivng Him, all are welcome. In fact, he uses the weak and most undeserving people to bring glory to Him. All are welcome to come to God and serve Him. Another strike against Catholicism, there is a certain criteria you have to live up to in order to be a part of the religion. I despise that, or more importantly, deeply hurt for those deceived into thinking that this is the "God who loves" when their church tells them they are not even wanted enough by God to ask forgivness from Him.
This is religion for you. People twist it into what THEY want to believe, which is why I don't believe in religion. And I believe that you have created a sort of world where Catholicism is the answer to everything and does everything right ((hmmm, is raping little children right? I know this is a low blow, but I thought I should point this out that the priest that were supposedly directed and blessed by God to lead their religion are rapists and molesters) and thankfully for you, you have probably never had anything happen to you until now that has questioned your beliefs. Therefore your little world has never been shattered completely, but you can't live in imagination forever. I just hope one day you wake up and see the bondaging and ACTUAL doctrines of Catholicism before they bondage you. If I ever one day believe enough in pray to believe my prayer will actually be heard or count for something, I'll remember to pray for High Queen Shelly Belly who has "built her house on the sand".
I'm going to pray for you too Gem. I hope that one time in your life you come to know the Lord again.
-as someone who has has 20 years training in the theology of catholicism , I can assure you there is nothing in the catholic church documents that permits molesting children. If you can find a passage in the catechism that allows it, let me know. If anyone does something wrong like that it is their own personal sin and it will be meted the justice of God.
– If you want to discuss facts, instead of emotions, the insurance industry has already released their data stating the majority of sexual abuse case payouts is from protestant churches, NOT catholic churches. the majority of cases are youth pastors crossing the line with teenagers. don't hear THAT in the news though, huh? this however, does not predjudice me against youth pastors, that would be absurd.
– Yes worshiping mary or a saint would be blasphemy, since we don't do it, I'm not worried about it.
– As a matter of fact, I had an elementary school teacher cross the line with me. Even back then, I just realized he was a wacko. I do not now have a vendetta against schools, or teachers, or assume school and teachers are all evil.. And I do not let it stop me. I pray God does not send him to hell over it.
– Since you are not familiar with actual church doctrine, I can assure you from the outside looking in, nothing of the sort is happening that you believe is. If you keep going around in circles on topics you are not even familiar with, but are concocting your own reality about what is going on, and won't be logical and actually look at the REAL teachings, and not the distortions you have picked up, then you are
unwilling to be openminded and unwilling to deal in facts. That is your decision and i will have to leave you there.
-my faith has been thouroghly researched, which is why i joined it, my faith is built on the solid rock that christ established.
For your sake, I hope you come to the realization God has left us the deposit of faith for our BENEFIT, don't let man or Satan convince you against it. that would be a victory for the advesary, and I guarentee you he is enjoying creating turmoil in you to keep you off balance and bitter against what has been left to you by christ in love.
-let us close this discussion. Best wishes to you-
Thank you, Not of This World, I appreciate that. I am sorry, HQSB, that my words didn't seem to show you how maybe you believe in something that you truly don't know about. I really hoped to ignite in you a want to really go and find out the purpose of the Catholic church, which is to exult people who have no right being in the place of God, claim to have direct blessing from God just to make their religion sound valid when it really sounds rather selfish and wanting. That's the point I'm trying to make, Catholicism is a wanting religion. When and if I ever have a personal relationship with God, I want it to be fulfilling and give me significance, and I want to believe in something that is the answer to everything, and Catholicism is not any of those. Unfortunately for you, you have not changed my mind about Catholicism, I still believe what I do- the true, cold facts. I'm sorry you were molested as a child. I really hope someday you find your way.
Best wishes to you as well. I've really enjoyed discussing this matter.